Application not returning proper BIBLIO data?

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andrewgoldberg
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:51 am

Application not returning proper BIBLIO data?

Post by andrewgoldberg » Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:58 am

Hello,

I am trying to find the "biblio" data for application: US 13/009,774. After converting to DOCDB I get the following information containing 29 family members:

http://ops.epo.org/3.1/rest-services/fa ... 774/biblio

However, when I type "13/009,774" into CCD, I only get three family members even though the DOCDB number in CCD is correct. When I expand to "10 families" in CCD, I still only get 24 members. I have no idea what is going on.

Can someone help?

Edit: As a follow-up, what is the syntax for displaying a simple family?
http://ops.epo.org/3.1/rest-services/fa ... quivalents
or
http://ops.epo.org/3.1/rest-services/fa ... nts/biblio
does not work. Finally, is there a way to define the depth of the returned family as in CCD?

Thanks!


EPO / OPS Support
Posts: 1039
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:32 pm

Re: Application not returning proper BIBLIO data?

Post by EPO / OPS Support » Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:17 am

Hi,

The document in your URL has 3 simple DOCDB family members and 24 extended Inpadoc family members: http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicat ... cale=en_EP

So, when searching OPS and you want to display simple Docdb patent family you need to do this:

Code: Select all

http://ops.epo.org/3.1/rest-services/published-data/application/docdb/US.201113009774/equivalents/
Please note that the result of simple family search gives ambiguous seed response which means that the system is offering you two publication steps of one patent invention (due to missing de-duplication) and is asking you to choose one in order to display biblio as a second step.

But if you want extended Inpadoc patent family you need to do family search:

Code: Select all

http://ops.epo.org/3.1/rest-services/family/application/docdb/US201113009774/biblio
You will find 29 results due to missing de-duplication that we apply to Espacenet but not to OPS. De-duplication is a business rule that makes sure that only one publication per invention is represented in the list for any invention that has more than one publication step. Since OPS is a direct access to the raw data we don't have any business rules implemented a result list will display all publications and its steps and that's why you will usually always get more results in OPS as you would in Espacenet.

Any questions on CCD you will have to direct to the department that deals with CCD. We can only help with OPS questions.

Regards,
OPS support


andrewgoldberg
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:51 am

Re: Application not returning proper BIBLIO data?

Post by andrewgoldberg » Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:00 pm

Thanks for the response, as you can tell I'm very new to this. Follow up questions...
Please note that the result of simple family search gives ambiguous seed response which means that the system is offering you two publication steps of one patent invention (due to missing de-duplication) and is asking you to choose one in order to display biblio as a second step.
So you're saying if I search the simple family for that DOC DB number, I won't be able to get the simple family data without picking the application or patent that is displayed? Is there a way to make applications be default when this happens so these applications don't get ignored during batch runs? If so, how?

Also, as a follow up: I get a lot of applications that get a "Please request bibliographic data in smaller chunks" error. How would I request the bib data in smaller chunks? Any sort of range modifier doesn't seem to work (my syntax is probably off). My base URL is below:

Full Family:
http://ops.epo.org/3.1/rest-services/fa ... 595/biblio

Simple Family:
http://ops.epo.org/3.1/rest-services/pu ... uivalents/

Thanks again!


EPO / OPS Support
Posts: 1039
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:32 pm

Re: Application not returning proper BIBLIO data?

Post by EPO / OPS Support » Tue Mar 08, 2016 8:42 am

Hi,

I was obviously not clear enough, sorry. I meant "your request" your example, gives ambiguous seed and not that every request is by default ambiguous. So, in case of your request you need to choose one publication step at the time and adjust your url accordingly and retrieve biblio for each:

http://ops.epo.org/3.1/rest-services/pu ... .A1/biblio

http://ops.epo.org/3.1/rest-services/pu ... .B2/biblio

If your request would not give ambiguous seed you would get biblio response with your original query. There is no way to avoid this but if you get error 413 instead of biblio response that should be a indication that you have an ambiguous request as a result of your query.

I've notice that you refer to Inpadoc family as full family, and that is not really what is is.
Full and real family of a specific invention that shows geographical landscape of where this patent is potentially granted is really only simple Docdb patent family.

Inpadoc family is much broader and includes also other similar inventions from other applicants - so the question is what exactly do you need. This family will cover same technology but can have slightly different technical content and far end family members might not even share same priority with the members at the very heart of the family. Usually, people are interested in this extended patent family when they are looking for competitors. So, the question is what exactly you need and why.

Your family request can not work because you are looking for simple family in extended family service and that is not possible in OPS:
In Family service, only Biblio or Legal constituents are allowed:
http://ops.epo.org/3.1/rest-services/fa ... 774/biblio

As I told you in my first reply, simple family search you can only perform via OPS Published services with Equivalent constituent and Inpadoc extended you do via Family service using either biblio, legal or no constituent (to only get a list)

I suggest that you read OPS documentation for details and use API console: https://developers.epo.org/ to see what kind of requests are even possible in OPS.

Documentation is available here: http://www.epo.org/searching-for-patent ... html#tab13

Again, unfortunately we can not really help with CCD. Maybe one of the members of the forum might have some experience otherwise please contact CCD costumer service via email.

Regards,
OPS support


andrewgoldberg
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:51 am

Re: Application not returning proper BIBLIO data?

Post by andrewgoldberg » Tue Mar 08, 2016 4:03 pm

Thanks again for the reply and clarification.

You forgot to address one of the two questions.
I get a lot of applications that get a "Please request bibliographic data in smaller chunks" error. How would I request the bib data in smaller chunks? Any sort of range modifier doesn't seem to work (my syntax is probably off).
Can you show me a URL that addresses this problem in smaller chunks for the: http://ops.epo.org/3.1/rest-services/fa ... 595/biblio request?


EPO / OPS Support
Posts: 1039
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:32 pm

Re: Application not returning proper BIBLIO data?

Post by EPO / OPS Support » Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:55 am

Hi,
In your specific case, you need to remove biblio constituent at the end of your request and only query a list of family members (142 in total for your US doc) and then you need to separately query biblio for those family members only, either by doing it only for those family members that you are interested in or if you want all 142 you can use POST method as distributed in OPS documentation. Another thing to remember is that out of 142 family members a lot of them are for same invention but different publication steps so you need to decide if querying only one publication step per invention is good enough for you. In this way you list will be much shorter (you can identify those that belong together because they share the same application number, application date as well as Application reference DOC ID).

Please note that POST works only in Published services for Biblio constituent.

I hope this helps,

OPS support


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